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Boston 49, Us 43, America 32, U.s. 19, Washington 14, New York 14, United States 13, Fbi 10, George W. Bush 7, Obama 7, Russia 5, Maryland 5, Mark Sanford 5, Mark Murray 5, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev 4, Luis Gutierrez 4, Obama Administration 4, Braniff 4, New York City 4, Texas 4,
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  CSPAN    Washington Journal    News/Business. Live morning call-in program with  
   government officials, political leaders, and journalists.  

    April 21, 2013
    7:00 - 10:01am EDT  

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studies about how often americans think about terrorism. and ken eiler from the constitution process discusses the group's recent report on torture by the united states. "washington journal" is next. ♪ good morning. in washington this week, the debate over immigration will continue in the u.s. senate. another round of hearings in the senate to did she or he committee senate also debating whether states could be allowed to collect sales taxes. expect a vote on the president's choice to head up the office of management and budget. silvio burrell coming up -- .ylvia burwell expecting your more questions questions into the boston marathon bombings and the ongoing federal investigation. it is sunday, april 21.
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the boy weekend on scouts of america. and the debate over whether to allow gay scouts and/or gay leaders appeared we are going to focus on this issue in our first 45 minutes of today's "washington journal." our line for republicans is (202) 585-3881, for democrats, (202) 585-3880, independent, (202) 585-3882. .ou can set up a tweet @cspanwj we'll check in with michelle boysen and a moment. let's begin with a quick look at some of the other headlines, beginning with the boston herald. the events of the last week in boston dominated the coverage. a celebration that essentially took place yesterday at fenway park -- this is the headline from "the boston herald," loud and proud. and from the boston sunday globe, acting toward normal,
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healing still to do as neil diamond came back to fenway to sing "sweet caroline," which is a longtime tradition at fenway park. part of the investigation in the days ahead of what the fbi knew and whether or not they could've done more as an agency to offset what happened this past monday with three people killed, more than 170 injured. 57 remain hospitalized this morning. two in critical condition today i'm according to the boston globe. the miami herald -- poisonous partnership. a look at the relationship between the two brothers involved in the bombing. one suspect still to be charged, remaining in critical condition in a boston hospital. the chicago tribune -- as the manhunt ends, cheers replaced fierce. amanta journal-constitution of the manhunt over, the search for a motive. we want to begin with the debate over gay members of the boy
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scouts of america and gay leaders. over the weekend, the boy scouts of america did issue a series of statements as the organization comes to grips on whether or not gay scout leaders should or should not be allowed. let me read you a portion from the boy scouts of america, which says while the bsa does not proactively -- limited in what they say many from yesterday. michelle boysen teen is writing about this. she's joining us live on the phone. he went for being with us. , the same a you just
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rest -- read is interesting because the distention between adults and youth is that a lot of people -- it may be contradictory to a lot of people, but among their membership, particularly the 70% that are targeting organizations that are religious, solid as a big decision. they want want to make the claim that they have an issue. host: this came about as part of the governing board that met on friday. it is one of the stories that is not getting a lot of attention because of the events in boston. but what happens next? basically, the quick history on that is that last summer, the scouts said that they had looked at this topic for a long period of time and would keep his full band. there was an outcry from members and some other big corporate donors. the president and mitt romney
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spoke in favor of lifting the ban. in january, they started releasing the fact that they were keeping it up to each charter. so essentially they would lift the ban completely and leave it up to each organization. there was a lot of backlash against that too. of theerning council former ship that will meet later in may. they're basically recommending what they do. but it sadly voted upon. but they have done so much much polling of their membership that i am guessing that this is probably the outcome that they expect will happen in may. >> the -- host: the question we are asking a sunday morning, this resolution, allowing gay scouts but not permitting gay leaders. give us a phone call at (202) 585-3881, our line for republicans. (202) 585-3880 four democrats.
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you can send us a tweet or send us an e-mail, journal@c- span.org. michelle boorstein, what kind of debate can you expect as they prepare a vote on may 20? often you hear people making some kind of a more secular point of view. that this would be like having ofe members leading a bunch girl scouts. something like that. and then you have people they get in the argument that they consider this a moral -- immoral. and then there is this other discussion, which you saw in a lot of the information that the without but on friday, which is that they are characterizing themselves as being dragged into this public debate. conversations about sexuality should be up to parents and not something that comes up in the context of boy scouts. so i think you will probably hear all of those points of view here -- view.
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host: there is also debate in california of rescinding its theyree status because if restrict in any way either gay scout leaders or gay members. guest: i'm not sure. from what i've seen on i, i've seen the different legal arguments about that. the way that they have is structured with the volunteers. it is participation primarily paired that is my understanding of the legal argument. there is not unanimous feeling that they would lose on that. host: please continue. -- an how divided organization of this size -- it is one of the largest organizations in the country. you can really see the microcosm of the conversation that is happening in the country, which is to say there
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is still a huge amount of division, but if you look at the demographics, the younger members, not just the youth themselves that they polled, oppose the ban, but the membership of the boy scouts -- parents are younger and adults hearing people that have been in the boy scouts. the parents under 50 now a pose the ban. overall, all adults who are theers of a 61% support ban. that volunteers who are on the older side. , changesst few years have been so dramatic and public opinion. their polling showed three years ago, 67% of parents of scouts supported the ban. today, it is only 48%. that is just in the past three years. the headlines in the washington post.com -- gay scouts but not gay leaders.
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a gay rights advocacy group the boy scouts not going far enough. to go back to the statement of the boy scouts of america is saying that any sexual activity, whether heterosexual or homosexual, is contrary to the virtues of scouting. can you address that point? guest: they are essentially saying they are trying to enforce more traditional values in terms of they don't believe that boys of scouting age should be having sex regardless. so that statement was them saying, whether gay or straight, we don't believe -- basically one of the concerns of a habit they don't want to see scouts in relationships. participating in scouting, i think that that would be distracting from their activities. so they're trying to make that not just about same-sex .elationships, but in general,
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what ist me read to you essentially part of the resolution that will be debated on. host: some may read into that the don't ask don't tell policy of the 1990's. guest: they argue that that has basically been their policy -- don't ask don't tell -- has been their policy. they were not expelling people if they did not know about it. and they made a point in that resolution that they release on friday that is going to be voted on next month. they said something like, the boy scouts do not have an agenda, or something like they
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have no agenda on the topic of sexuality. so they are essentially saying we are now pushing this. we not pushing hunting around for gay leaders, we are not pushing this. host: michelle boorstein who has the story on the washington post, thank you for being with us. we appreciate it. thank you. host: base underreporting and this vote that will come out mid-may, we want to hear from you, your thoughts on boy scouts of america. we have a tweet from joseph this psa is a-- private organization, so the gay issue is their call. shirley is joining us on our independent line from ohio. caller: i am 81 now. host: happy birthday. gautengi had been in
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for 18 years while my kids were growing up. i took training from the national, and i will tell you something -- even though they gave me two awards, they belonged to the boys. and all the time i was there, i've seen women slipped trying to get girls into cub scouts, guys and gals living together and wanted to be leaders, i have seen it all. and gays do not belong in our program. if they wanted of the program, let them start their own. don't do this to our scouts. host: surely, thank you for the call and happy birthday. from steve harrison -- a scouts trustworthy, loyal, courteous, tearful, brave, clean, reverence, and out of touch. ryan is joining us from
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pittsburgh, massachusetts. good morning, welcome to the "washington journal." the gays believe should be able to lead in the cub scouts. you don't ever hear of gave sexually abusing anybody. sexually abusing anybody. can you make a show about how bad -- is doing to this country. somebody like ross perot. appreciate it. way, we worked on usa today with a ross perot entered -- interview. if you would check it out, it is available on our video library site at www.c-span.org. good morning. caller: things have gotten out of hand. in california, they're talking about where you have got to let the boys of transgender lay on the girls team or let girls
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play over in male football. the gate agenda has just asked for too much. against the case against gay education. we need to draw the line. .hey need to be left alone boston sayingrom i do not believe what death are a good idea in general anyway. very collective and conforming. we will come back to more of your calls in just a moment. in case you missed it, with these passing on friday, the founder of usa today, al newhart, passed away. he died at his home. he was 89 years old. he began his career with the organization and ross chester, new york. he started florida today back in the 1960's. later, usa today. the los angeles times is writing about the leaders of boy scouts endorsing gay scout members as
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opposed to adult. the morning, where are you phoning from? collar, you are on the air. please go away. --caller, you are on the air. please go ahead. caller: ok, i'm calling about boy scouts of america. if you're using american tax dollars, you should be more .olerant this is a new age. we have to just step aside gracefully and let the younger people decide what they want to do. and don't fight it so much.
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it is different if you say let them start their own. but if you are using tax dollars, you have to be tolerant. the christians for too long have been intolerant of everything except their own point of view. and 80 to just set back and they need to step back and see what would jesus do. this is ridiculous. it has gone on too long with the intolerance. and using tax dollars to spread their way of thinking and getting stronger. host: we will leave it there. thank you for the call. ed is on the phone from republican -- is on the republican line from ohio. areer: i think the kids being punished. they are at an age where they do not know if they are gay or not. i think in the long run, it is
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the children that are being punished, not the adults. the people that are so mean and hateful, especially to our young kids, i think is as hateful. thank you. for the call. from the new york times, the bombing turns to motivate a trip to russia. the fbi initially looked into the older brother involved -- allegedly involved in the bombings that took place on monday. a2012 visits as a possible key to the boston attack. here the story is going from the of the new york times. in his weekly address, the president using the boston bombings as a suspect -- here is a portion. [video clip] >> the bighearted people of boston, residents, shopkeepers, who carried victims and their arms, delivered water and blankets, lined up to give blood, opened their homes up to total strangers.
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and the heroic federal agencies and police officers who worked together throughout the week at great risk to themselves to keep our communities safe. have a country, we are eternally grateful for the profound sacrifices they make in the line of duty. sometimes making the ultimate sacrifices to defend the people they swore to protect. , whatlly wasn't a we are america is america is, how we respond to evil inherited, that is it. selflessly, compassionately and unafraid. through the days, they with test even the 30th of salt. america's spirit remains undimmed. our faith in each other, our love in our country, our common creed, whatever superficial differences we may have, that is what make the strong. that is why we endure.
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i have no doubt that the city of boston will continue to respond the same proud and her work way that they have thus far. their fellow americans will be with them every step of the way. may god bless the people of boston and the united states of america. host: from the new york daily news, a may shape -- a makeshift memorial has been set up. a crime scene investigation and the pictures of the three victims, including a student from china that was studying at bu, a 29-year-old woman and the eight-year-old boy with funeral services expected this week. two of the victim still remain in critical condition. back to your calls and comments, the l.a. times writing about this on this sunday morning -- the boy scouts of america allowing gay scout but no gay leaders. the l.a. times writes --
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next and is joining us from akron, ohio. democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a husband who was a cub scout leader for many years. we have two boys. both are eagle scouts. one is gay. i honestly believe he did not come out until he was unable scout because he knew he would not be afforded the opportunity to receive that achievement. i do not think boy scouts have anything to do with your sexuality. it is an organization that teaches young men how to be active in their community, to be grown-up leaders. i think it is a shame that once they reach a stage in their life
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where they can be leaders, then they are shunned and ousted from it. i think it is sad. i don't think we should judge people on their orientation. has nothing to do with scouting. host: thank you for the call. next caller from asheville, north carolina. good morning. i wanted to chime in on this. i have been a boy scouts cents -- from age 11 to age 18. this is a really touchy suspect. -- subject. they're forced to admit people who are not of their charter when they first started, boy scouts are supposedly reverent. agree with what they want to twist it to be then you are intolerant.
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our generation is getting old and ready to pass on. while you are playing with all of your gadgets and toys, there was an older generation that was creating those toys he can play with on computer and whatnot. i do not agree to the boy scouts having a scoutmaster that is gay. than sendingerent them to a catholic church worry we have all of these priests molesting these boys. host: thank you for the call. next is alice joining us from augusta, georgia. caller: good morning. i think that they should allow a scout. positive reason is because if you know a person is gay, then you know what you are getting. i can guarantee you that there are some leaders right now, scout leaders right now that are gay. but they can't say it because they know they would be kicked out. therefore, if you know the person is gay, and he is doing a great job, because most gay
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people, because i have witnessed of, they are outstanding. they take their jobs very seriously. if you know what you are getting without any doubts, then that is what i would love to know. not just someone undercover. because they are out there. host: thank you for the call. from our twitter page, this comment -- should heterosexual men beep band from -- men be banned from coaching girls softball? homosexuality is not the same as the affiliate -- pedophilia. we want to read to you again, in may, the national executive committee is asking its approximately 1400 voting members to consider a proposed resolution that would remove the restriction denying membership to use on on the basis of sexual orientation alone and would maintain the
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current membership policy for all adult leaders of the boy scouts of america. the resolution also reinforces that scouting is a youth sexual conduct, whether hasbro sexual sexual or homosexual, by use of scouting age is contrary to the virtues of scouting. got a story is from an applicable maryland. welcome. boy scoutam an active leader. the issue that i have -- the gay issue, it is a nonsexual hopeonment where we can to teach boys and lead them into the future. at we would never allow minor female in a minor mail to sleep in the tent together because they are teenagers. i could takee how a gay boy scout out and allow him to sleep in the tent with other boys because i can't protect them what they are sleeping in the tent. if they are sexually attracted to the person that they are
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sleeping with. so i have an issue with that. , backn adult perspective in the 1970's in 1980's, the boy scouts had issues with that affiliate where you had male having homosexual relationship with youth. i understand the gay community will say that is no relation at all, but the reality is if a male is sexually attracted to another male, whether their youth or an adult, we cannot have that, either. what i would like -- what i like about the boy scouts is that the issue of sex is not come up. there are so many other lessons that can be taught. my attitude is they sex up to the parents. for me as a leader, i don't feel oxidant that i can safely lead these boys if i have youth that are sexually attracted to other youths, sleeping in the same tent together. it is really for me about when we go out camping and hiking and
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these boys are sleeping in tents together, if they are sexually attracted to each other, i cannot have sexual activity on a boy scout trip and then bring that son back to their parents as a, oh, hey, here is your kid. it is a real big issue for me. and i understand that some people are attracted to people of the same sex. but in terms of boy scouts, that should not be an issue at all. echoes back to the earlier statement that i read from the boy scouts of america thing it is not permitted among homosexuals or heterosexuals of scouting age. caller: yeah, it is not allowed at all. , theyt, a few years ago got these crews were they allowed was a girl to camp together with their 18-21. and they were at summer camp, and the girls and boys got in trouble because they went out in the middle of the night and were getting in trouble.
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scott, i will leave it there. i appreciate your perspective. from our twitter page, there is this from one of our viewers -- boys got here yesterday collecting food for a local food pantry. i'm sure those recipients don't care about the kids' sexuality. twotoday show now number in the ratings. matt lauer making the cover of the new york times magazine. this is what it looks like inside -- waking up on the wrong side of the ratings war. the inside story -- and curry, matt lauer, and the other individuals involved in nbc's "today show." , immigration will continue to be front and center. we covered live the hearing on friday by the senate judiciary committee. another rounds tomorrow at 10:00 eastern time. you can watch it online at www.c-span.org and on the c-span
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networks. our guest on c-span's newsmakers .rogram, luis gutierrez he is on the house immigration subcommittee. [video clip] a backgroundr check, finger print, background checks. once they pass a background check, not a criminal, there is a work permit. ,o go back, check with the irs and if you have to go back for three years, look at your income taxes, make sure you don't owe any money. the are -- the irs is going to have a job in order to issue a statement, he is good with me. or she is good with me. but they get a work permit. that is not citizenship. they will be in the senate version, for reasonable, it is 10 years. they say in this program for 10 years, they work hard, they sweat and toil, they learn english, take seven -- civics
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classes and hit their noses clean, and at the end of the 10 years, they can say, hey, i did everything required of the program. i worked come i raise my children, i bought a house. many now. and then there will be a green card. in the senate version, three years of a green card, they can then apply for american citizenship. host: i'll conversation with representative luis gutierrez on c-span's newsmakers following the "washington journal"@10:00 eastern time. meanwhile, the new york times writing about what he called immigration fear. country and stronger role of law, passed copperheads of reform. -- past comprehensive reform. then there is this summary from the new york times editorial. there is a better way to be safer. pass an immigration bill if
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terrorists, drug traffickers, and gang bangers with sharp meters in the immigrant haystack, then shrink the haystack. get 11 million people on the books, find out who they are. the issueur calls on of boy scouts of america we welcome jim to the conversation from oklahoma. good morning. the gay crowd wants to push how they live on uni. they should be able to decide their own rules and the government should be completely out of it. just like the gay marriage thing. if they want to get married, fine. if a certain church doesn't want
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to marry them, then so be it. the government should stay out of the whole issue. that's it. host: part of the debate this week on what to do with the alleged bomber involved in the killing of three bostonians over this past week. the headline, republicans want the boston bombing suspect treated as an enemy combatants, sparking miranda debate. key republicans are calling on the obama administration to declare the 19-year-old suspect an enemy combatant subject to the loss of four, so intelligence officials can continue to interrogate him for as long as they deem necessary. authorities captured him in watertown, mass. friday evening. they are invoking the public .afety exception he remains hospitalized under sedation and remains unclear
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what kind of communication they are able to have him at the moment. judy is on the phone from north carolina, independent line. good morning, and welcome to the program. caller: thank you. my thought on the issue is that we are a large nation, an all- inclusive nation, and i believe that the boy scouts is a private organization and has the right to determine who their membership is. i believe there should be a third organization that some of the gay-rights people should put into place, and that would be the rainbow scouts. then they can put all the lbb tea in anything they wanted, -- lgbt. republican senator tim
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scott delivering the republican response and focusing on the events of the past week, including the events in boston. >> these amazing americans, some of whom charged barricades and fences, put their own lives on the line to save others. we are so thankful for these women and men who, on a daily basis, sacrifice for others. they are friends, our family, our neighbors. join me in praying for them and the victims of this tragedy. to those who would attack america for our citizens, let me say this. there is a corner on earth -- no corner on earth, no hiding place in america that will keep us from finding it. the leaders of this country will do everything in our power to bring justice for the families and communities impacted. our freedom is our most precious possession. any effort to take it away will only strengthen our
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determination. because the brackett -- great news of america is not seen during times of prosperity, but is crystallized by how we respond to challenges. we will stand strong. we will stand united, and we will stand together for boston. thank you, and god bless america. scott inator tim republican response to the president's address. paying tribute to martin richard, krystle campbell, and the student lingzi lu. the essence of the next part of the story deals with the fbi. according to the washington post, a russian security agency as the fbi for information on the tsarnaev back in 2011 because of communications with individuals and russia or other
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activity on the internet that brought them to their attention. the fbi in a statement released friday saying it scrutinize his record in visited him and his family back in 2011 but found no grounds for further action. the national journal has the story this morning. boston bombings created new stress. for the president. he should not read too easy. joe lawrence points out the going forward, the tragic episode and a stunning have created new areas of stress for his already beleaguered administration, especially on the issue of immigration and terrorism. back to calls and comments. we are focusing this morning on the boy scouts of america saying yes to gay scouts, but no to gay leaders. we welcome our listeners as well on c-span radio.
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clark is joining us from pennsylvania on the democrats' line. caller: i have been a scoutmaster for the past 30 years. as a matter of fact, i will be presenting three of our scouts with their eagle award this afternoon. so i have some background in what i am talking about. first of all, this is not a decision that is being forced on anyone. as a scoutmaster and a volunteer of 30 plus years, i have been advocating for this change for quite a while, for the least the past decade. so this is not an attack on the boy scouts. there are many of us who have been dedicated to this program for our entire adult lives, who are working very hard to make this happen. secondly, in order for us to get
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some indication of what happens when you have a fully inclusive program, all we need to do is look at canada, look to great , you don't australia encounter any of these problems of voice camping together in tents are whatever. it is a non-issue. bsa does not inquire about orientation of employees, volunteers, are members or prevent membership but those are youn that point, comfortable having gays got members, but saying no to gay leaders?
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i am for the measure that being able to admit use is certainly something i support and i think the proposal should move forward. i do not agree that we should adult volunteers based on sexual orientation. i think it is an absolute non- issue. the scouts themselves in the executive summary of the studies that have done. out that this has absolutely no own sexual youth's orientation, the fact that they would be led by homosexual leader, and there's no correlation -- it says very emphatically in the materials that were released on friday, that there's no correlation between pedophilia and homosexuality. host: congratulations on your
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eagle scouts later today in their accomplishments. appreciate you being with us. this is the private organization and our government has no place in this issue. they have enough issues. but of course, part of this is the tax benefits that the organization receives. we are focusing on boy scouts of america this morning. the dedication ceremony of the george w. bush library and museum. rewinding history, the bush museum let you decide. he points out that more than four years after leaving office, former president george w. bush as a question for americans. what would you have done in a new brick and limestone museum, visitors will be presented with stark choices that confronted the nation's 43rd president -- invade iraq or leave saddam hussein in power? deploy troops after hurricane
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katrina or rely on local forces? bail out wall street or let the banks fail? we conducted an interview earlier this month that airs at about 6:20 eastern time thursday morning, the day of that library dedication. we will be covering the library dedication live on c-span3 at 11:00 eastern time. next is david joining us from decatur, georgia, independent line. good morning. caller: one of the best teachers i had an elementary school as a gay man. i have two cousins who were excellent cousins of mine. ida's want to say that my wife and i both were abused as .hildren
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and ifplayed in the nfl i knew a teammate was gay, i would not want to take a shower with him. that is just absolute fact. i would not want to be a roommate with him, because we have normal, natural attractions. host: that is part of the debate in the nfl, whether a player should come out and announce that they are openly gay. thatrd that there are four are contemplating doing that. knew me would who tell you what was never a gay basher. but at the same time, if everything is based on legal versus legal versus moral versus immoral, then you create a slippery slope that justifies
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legalizing potentially anything, any malfunction. in a civil society it cannot have these crossovers. you just cannot. we cannot have two men are two women coming together. that is just a biological fact. one of my cousins died of hiv. he said he thanked god that the lord changed his life. here is a slippery slope we are creating, and we don't understand that. i said to some little league coaches, this is not how you and i got here. it does not advance civilization. that is my heartfelt response to this whole nonsense. the you want to share with
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us some more background as to when and where you played football? caller: i went to university of kansas, and that is all i can tell you. i am from new jersey. i havesame time, again, a love that was placed in my heart of days. the other. for me is that again, i am not a gay basher. give aying all this to balanced perspective that god loves everybody. host: thanks for the call. a few more minutes to talk about this issue and then we'll turn our attention to politics. mark murray is going to join us and about five minutes. this. on our twitter page. point on our twitter page. two moreea moved
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missile launchers. apparently indicating is pushing ahead with preparations for a test launch. south korea and its allies have been expecting some sort of north korean missile launch. one unidentified south korean military source telling reuters that satellite imagery showed north korean forces had moved those two missile launchers to the southern province. more details available online at reuters.com. marsha is joining us from burlington, vermont on the question of the boy scouts of america saying yes to gay scouts, no to gay leaders.
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a vote by the executive committee of the boy scouts of america. what is your take on this? even though the statement allows gay youths, i still have to comment on that just because of the callers that have been calling in. i don't know how all the orgazaon is, but decades, write? i am sure it gay youth have been sleeping in tents with other boy scouts for a long time, and as far as i know, the world has not come to an end. i far as a football player, am pretty sure he showered with gay people, to, so he is just going to have to look it that, i guess. host: we have been focusing on the boy scouts of america. you can get more information by logging on to bsa.org.
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they have issued a statement that they would allow all gay scouts but not a leaders. we'll follow the story again in the weeks ahead. we will turn our attention to a special election in south carolina. also, what is next on the immigration debate. mark murray of nbc news is going to be joining us. a new report out by the national consortium for the study of terrorism in response to terrorism. have thought about terrorism in the last week than they thought about hospitalization or violent crime. we will talk about that with bill braniff from university of maryland. all of the sunday shows can be heard on c-span radio. the events in boston and immigration topping the list.
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nancy, good morning. >> the main focus of today's talk shows, the events this week in boston, and fallout from those events. rears program's beginning at noon beginning with "meet the press." and richard durbin clarke. at 2:00 p.m., here fox news sunday. chris wallace talks with the chairman of the senate intelligence committee. senator dianne feinstein, also republican representative peter king and former cia director michael hayden. candy crowley welcomes homeland security chairman representative michael mccaul, former you -- new york city mayor rudy giuliani. at four o'clock, face the nation from cbs. bob schieffer talks with michael
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mccaul and senator tom car burned, the ranking member of the senate homeland temerity -- homeland security community. -- committee. the rea errors begin at noon airs begin at noon eastern. listen to them all on c-span radio here in the washington d.c. area. nationwide on ex-im satellite radio, channel 119. download are free app for your smartphone or go online to cspanradio.org. >> she was very bright, she was very political, which is why she and lincoln got together in the first place. she was extremely well educated. she had all these things going
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for her, but she had suffered a series of tremendous emotional blows. three of her four children died. her four sons died, one in the white house, one shortly after her husband's assassination sitting next to her at the theater. the kinds of grief this woman was going through were amazing. we found out she was not crazy. mary todd was a very significant person, and i hope someday we get a better view of her, of the range of things that influenced her life, not just a tragedy. >> more on mary todd lincoln in our conversation with historians and you come alive monday night on c-span and c-span3. host: we want to welcome back
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mark murray, senior political for cbs news. and the of hearing events in boston and these two brothers came to the u.s. has essentially a legal citizens, ironically becoming citizens on september 11, 2011. how have the events impacted what we will be seeing in the weeks ahead? legislation will not be passed in full until july, august, or september. it is too early to tell. one thing we do know is that supporters of this are concerned a little bit. we saw senators john mccain, lindsey graham, put out a statement on friday afternoon saying this should not have happened at all. if you are going support comprehensive immigration reform, it would be to make sure
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that people come out of the shadows, that the country knows who is in this country and who is not. they were really defensive, trying to come out for this type of thing. it is important to note in this debate that these two brothers came to the united states for sure thatt i am not is applicable to the big contours' of the immigration reform bill that is trying to give a pathway to citizenship to people who are illegal in this country, not those who came in under asylum. host: the fbi is under some criticism because apparently they had looked into the older brothers trip to russia. six months. for they don't know who we had contact with and the fbi basically said he was not a threat. and of course we know what happened last monday.
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guest: there will be a tremendous amount of reporting over the next several days about what the fbi knew and did not know. in some type of instance like this when it comes to acts of terrorism, the political component becomes, what did the federal government know and not know? this is one of those things that will develop over time there remains to be seen coming to that extent. host: >> another round of hearings tomorrow at 10:00 eastern time. you can watch it on the c-span networks. senator chuck grassley trying to tie the events in boston. >> is important for us to understand the gaps and loopholes in our immigration system. helpwe find out it will shed light on the weaknesses of our system. how can individuals evade authorities and plan such attacks on our soil?
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how can we beef up security checks on people who wish to enter the united states? had a we ensure that people who wish to do us harm are not eligible for benefits under the immigration laws including this new bill before us? host: we should point out that was before it dzhokhar tsarnaev was captured. he is under heavy guard protection, but one of the issues is whether or not he will be given his miranda rights. is he a u.s. citizen and under the constitution considered innocent until proven guilty, or is he an enemy combat? guest: you have people from the aclu and other supporters of you haveerties saying cases where -- you have the same two senators, john mccain and
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lindsey gramm, who said this person is a terrorist and should not have parental rights. it seems the obama administration is going to be straddling the middle ground, as they did with the so-called under armour from a few years ago. underwearcalled bomber. host: national journal peteting the headline, williams reporting philosophy and why he was getting the boston story right. guest: i would have to say that pete williams is the best i have ever come across, so measured and sofer. is amazing he was able to be
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showcased the y he was. story.s a complicated a lot of journalists for getting the facts wrong as it was developing in real time, but pete williams was a constant force who was right 100% of the way. it is a model to all of us, people who were starting to this profession. host: the essence of the story is not jumping ahead of the story. on monday, some news organizations saying that dozens of people were killed. that was not the case, three were killed. the on-line sleuths pinpointed the wrong individuals before the fbi released those two photographs. it is always important to realize and people get carried away in the heat of the moment, we have to be incredibly careful
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what we are saying on tv and in the press, that it really matters. imagine how people were trying to be on line sleuths. that seemed to trigger the fbi and authorities to release the photos to be able to make sure the people who were being accused wrongly by some internet sleuths, that that story was rectified right away. host: and now you have read the cover story of the new york times sunday magazine, focusing on the departure of and curry andann curry. fans: i cannot be bigger of our current anchors. there is always a lot of trauma that goes on with any type of morning show, people feel like
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they know -- when it comes to " the today show" for example, it is like a family. the staff that i work with could not be better, but the new york times magazine -- is an interesting read, i will say. the. -- it can be a little messy from time to time. from the transition's we have had it in d.c. -- from the transition's we have had at nbc, sometimes it can be a little rocky when you move from one person to another.
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host: our phone lines are open. sendan give us a call or an e-mail or send a tweet. a lot of attention this week -- last week at this time. we will share what the president said on wednesday at the u.s. senate. it ended much quicker than people expected. guest: that is the key point in this. he said the measures deserve a vote. he did not say the measures should pass. were surprised a little bit by how quickly the debate ended. that felt that maybe they could end up getting a background check measure passed at the senate. the house is always going to be the toughest part. there was a combination of factors that made it so difficult. one was the power of the national rifle association.
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the other was the red-blue state divide. another factor was that many of these democrats who voted against the background check measure are up for reelection in 2014. finally, what is interesting and should be noted is the house of representatives is unlikely to move on this measure at all. thinking i want to take a tough vote, this might be difficult. if you need the house of representatives was not going to act, that probably seal the fate of this legislation, at least for the time being. is in the new york times, the senate said no to us and now it is our turn. he begins by saying, i want my money back.
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he is referring to the $2,500 he gave to the democrats who did not support the background check. he said he is going to take aim at these democrats who did not support it. the politicsn say of new town are going to change politics. while some red state senators voted against the measure, the democratic party by and large supported. some take issue and say we are going to deny financing to candidates who voted against this as a way to levy a punishment. the potential downside is that that should not get money from wealthy donors, does --t mean her opponent should that is a dilemma the democrats have to have on this one
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particular broke. do not want someone who is with me 100% of the time, or is it okay if this person is with me 80% of the time? she betrayed that us. he goes on to say that when i think about the democrats, i will focus on supporting in 2014. guest: people can decide who they want to give money to. there is going to be a lot of pressure, saying we are not going to give you money. who canmma of people donate $2,500 to political candidates, can you end up being a democrat who would end up making that kind of vote on a gun measure? it does not seem like they are democrats who can win statewide who are seen as people who want
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to have more gun control in those states. host: we are talking with mark murray of nbc news. this look ahead at the 2014 campaign. he points out there is a wild card in the midterm elections next year, the president. presidents normally don't inject themselves as aggressively as obama is promising to do. has committed to doing eight fundraisers this year and no telling how many next year to help the democrats win back the house of representatives. guest: that is one of the theories that a matter what ends up happening, the midterm election is always difficult for the incumbent president's party. voters always seem to take out their frustrations on any type of things going on on the incumbent party. there's another theory, too. the modern two-term presidents we have had have only had one
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bad midterm cycle. bill clinton had his very bad midterm cycle in 1994, but then in 1998, right after impeachment, he went unscathed. some democrats are hoping that after we took a beating in 2010, 2014 will not be as bad. if you look at the map when it comes to senate races, the democrats are going to be playing defense. their goal is simply to make sure the republicans don't have six senate seats to take control of the senate. election inpecial south carolina is taking place in may. good morning, eric. caller: i would like to direct this conversation into something that has been going on, the rand
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paul filibuster. the situation we saw was not a hypothetical situation. seen isation we have the exact situation where drones need to be used on american soil. here we had an enemy combat an, an american citizen. he was a terrorist. is simply a flying surveillance camera. this could have taken some of the drama out of the situation. eight grown with infrared thermal heat could have caught this guy. simplyl was grandstanding. i would like for you to comment on this situation. thank you. host: thanks for the call.
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that filibuster that senator paul had on the senate floor is getting a lot of attention. it was one of the most viewed events on our website in our history. guest: rand paul has made a name for himself. there was speculation about 26 teen that is way too early right now. if he is thinking about making a run for the presidency, that type of filibuster is certainly a way to be able to make a splash. as to the caller's question about drones, politically, even if lagrone was directed at a known terrorist or suspected terrorist, he is on american soil, which would probably be a big political problem in this country. we have seen the drone program used overseas that people who are targeted terrorists. that would be a tricky situation. i would say overall, i think the federal authorities, the local
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boss and a portage, is in such a delicate, dangerous situation are being applauded for the work ever able to do in a relatively short time. host: michael says president obama is concerned about his legacy. the affordable care act won't do it for him, so he needs something where he will be an early lame duck. some: all presidents at point to enter that lame-duck stage. if president obama is able to accomplish immigration reform, and some republicans wanted to happen, it would be a big legacy for all involved, something that president george w. bush was unable to accomplish and that president obama was unable to accomplish in his first term. capitol hill right now sees that as the last opportunity for really big piece of legislation, a legacy piece of legislation to occur. i don't think we'll have any resolution on this until july,
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august, september, so we have to be patient. we are going to see may twists and turns, but the reason why the gun measure ended up failing and why immigration seems to have a chance, both parties have an interest in getting something done on immigration. many republican leaders see this as something they need to do as well to make sure that 2012 elections, when they lost latinos by huge margin, does not happen again. july-september is probably the time frame you would get any kind of agreement. if you or someone hoping there is going to be a grand bargain, was, don't get your hopes up.
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however, look to the appropriations process in congress. that is the way you can end up getting some type of fixes into the so-called sequester, those automatic budget cuts that took effect earlier this year. don't be surprised if there are some compromises one way or another. certainly now that guns are off the table, immigration and the budget or the two big stories we are watching. republic --e to the welcome to the program, michigan, republican line. caller: that have been showing what happened in massachusetts. that is not the first time. talking about gun legislation that passed, i would like to know, the one young man that's arrived, what kind of chord is he going to be tried in? is he considered a terrorist?
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does he get tried in a regular court, or a different kind of court? ,hat is the outcome going to be and who makes that decision now go host: -- who makes that decision? host: >> this is the front page of the boston globe. the fbi was warned to years ago about the alleged bomber's radical shift, and then the question now for the younger brother, what rights he will have. he remains heavily sedated and at the moment is not talking to anyone because he has been incubated and is under number of drugs because he remains in serious condition. guest: i understand he will be charged under federal charges and in federal court. there is some debate and there are people in the republican party saying this person should not have to go through the same
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type of court process, this is an opportunity to try this person in a type of military tribunal, etc. others are urging that he is the united states citizen and should be afforded all the protections of a united states citizen who commit any crime. host: the headline from the boston herald, loud and proud. we were told by espn that he did it on in his own. brutal,hese types of terrible events, people in of losing their lives on monday and the police officer who lost his life on thursday night, it does show you how the country can come together in times of tragedy.
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i think the neil diamond's songs and the -- at the boston red sox games does cap off where there is solidarity, and it does represent the best of the country. bob is joining us next from pennsylvania. good morning. career as aent my systems analyst, and the first thing that i had to do when i took on a new project was to define a problem. immigration reform, immigration reform over and over again on every network. i never hear a definition of exactly what the problem is. i know there are a lot of facets to it, but until somebody takes the time to actually -- give me
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a bullet list of the things that we want to try to fix. i don't see what the point of all the discussion is. we are going to end up with some other nonsensical thing like this watered-down gone bill that would not solve any of the ,roblems that really affect us that cost up million people over the last 40 years to be killed in our country alone. things to me the list of that you consider a problem with the way immigration is now. host: let me share with you what senator rubio said early last week in a news conference. here are his comments. i would remind you, america is a nation of immigrants, and
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both republicans and democrats have failed to support -- enforce the law. we are not going to deport them. let's secure the border. let's bring people out of the shadows. they will pay a fine. they will start paying taxes. they will not qualify for federal benefits. we all wish we didn't have this problem, but we do, and we have to fix it. leaving things the way they are, that is the real enemy. host: rush limbaugh was critical of senator rubio, saying why are you doing this? guest: there are three problems the comprehensive immigration reform tries to solve. first, making sure the border is secure. the legislation does been money to have a strategy to put things in place, to make sure your
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meeting certain objectives and goals to beef up border security. the second goal is to make sure businesses are not using cheap labor illegally. the legislation into creating an employment verification system, so company cannot employee illegal immigrant labor. the third thing is giving legal status to those who currently live in the united states. his point was bringing people out of the shadows, ensuring they are not second-class citizens, ensuring they are paying taxes, to have the federal government know who these folks are and make him part of this country and its fabric. this has been a goal that george w. bush had, something president obama campaigned on. it does appear the stars are aligned to accomplish all these three things in this immigration
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reform package. mark sanford as he moves for a possible political comeback. waswife this week said he trespassing on her home. guest: i believe it was a tossup contest and now it is a of comediane sister stephen colbert. the biggest development is the charge by the ex-wife on mark sanford trespassing in her home. this occurred back in february. can carolina politics sometimes be ugly and dirty. this was an interesting development that came out. there's one ironclad rule in american politics. if your a divorced politician,
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you need to make sure you have the ex-spouse on board. his ex-wife did not give him a 100% endorsement. when the charge came out, it was not all that surprising. it is all here say right now but it does not seem to be a wife who is trying to help her ex- husband. in fact, it seems to be the opposite. it gives you an indication of who might be the favorite in this race. host: this is from the sanford campaign, talking about the issues of the campaign. this is a very conservative district that includes charleston. years, while many have talked, i have fought to do something about it. i have cut spending, reduced debt, and make government more accountable.
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i have experienced how none of us go through life without mistakes, but in their wake, we can learn about race, and second chances. in that light, i humbly step forward and ask for your help in changing washington. a mark sanford, and i approve this message. re.got it all in thei that is in response to ads that throwing are running, the kitchen sink at him, bringing up that so-called appalachian trail that he was supposed to be hiking on, but instead was in argentina. everything,g out and mentioning the affair he had with that moment in argentina. very tough ads, and mark sanford is trying to tell his side of
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the story. host: this spot released late last week, now on the air in south carolina's first district. [video clip] >> mark sanford walked out on us, violated our trust, secretly used thousands of taxpayer dollars lying to argentina, and then lying about it. republicans college misconduct and abuse of power, and sanford pay the largest fine in state history. now he wants our trust again. maybe mark sanford should just keep walking. we were in touch with the news director of one of the stations where there was supposed to be a televised debate. it is unclear whether there will be a debate before the may 7 election, but he indicated this is a pretty conservative district, and he could not see how elizabeth colewort busch
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could be elected. this district lean so conservative, republican, that he was able to hold on to power. if you look at everything happening right now, the trespassing charge against mark sanford, he is the slight underdog in this contest. the good news for republicans in this race, republicans cannot be -- it is tooying difficult for republicans, this is just a very bad story for republicans. it explains why republicans lost
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the seat as opposed to anything else. host: go ahead, bill. caller: thank you for taking my call. mr. murray is working for nbc as a reporter. we are getting conflicting reports regarding the boston -- there are all kinds of stories going around that some official from saudi arabia flew in to the white house and spoke with the president and then either they deported or are going to deport this particular person. it was originally reported by cbs. i just wonder what your whole take is on this matter. guest: i am not familiar with that side of the story. it is-understanding that there was some reporting by other networks that indicated --
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everyone reported there was some type of saudi individual who was being questioned, but was never implicated as being a suspect or even in custody. i am not familiar with the other activities after the fact, but something everybody is going to focus on, particularly all the people whose names came out that were falsely accused of committing this. most people have an interesting story to tell. also philadelphia's getting its fugitives in to court. from the sunday seattle times, the search now ships into why -- of whereof the the suspect was called lake friday evening. next to that, a political story
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about the mayor's race in los angeles. reporting very low turnout in the first run of -- runoff election. not taken ascs is seriously in los angeles as some other cities. the have a very big entertainment industry that takes a lot of people's energies in that city. but it is a fascinating race. she is trying to become the first female mayor. the candidates are broke democrats. garcetti is a big supporter of president obama. gruel.inton has endorsed polling shows that eric garcetti might have a little bit of and a
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bandage. we are watching what is happening in new york city and boston will have an open the mayoral race as well. host: carol and joining us from arlington, texas, democrats line. caller: my concern about immigration, i watched the hearings the other day and a young man who was on there representing the labor and employment organization said in comments that if the 24% unemployment rate was african- americans. i am very concerned about that. that theo appalled disrespect that was paid to him by the people who were interviewing him, like mr. leahy and all the people on the democratic side. the thing because of president
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obama's direct this involvement with black americans and jobs and his abandonment of us, do you think that there could be a backlash in the 2014 election, where the 93% or the portion of the 93% of the people that voted for him in the election would deny him the president of gaining the house? there is this message a foot in the black community, because we know that he has not done anything for black americans. thank you so much for taking my call. i love c-span. host: thank you for your call and comments. guest: >> on one hand you have the argument, people saying if you give a pathway to citizenship, they are going to take jobs away from people who
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should be able to have those jobs. the counter argument is, these people are often working jobs that others would not want or be able to have. that is a tricky situation. it is very interesting and theking how, despite unemployment rate that is a little under 8%, we have now seen some polling with leaders on capitol hill, all the stars seem to line to add something, with that argument that was just leveled. you will hear a lot of critics on immigration reform. people saying this will take jobs away from current legal u.s. citizens and that is why you should not be able to have it. very angryard a obama. guest: right now it seems the
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senate legislation on gun control has been shelved. we are hearing so much more on -- when you talk to advocates of gun control, they say there will be another newtown or another colorado situation. that will potentially be a rallying cry. people like gabrielle giffords from arizona, you have the families of the new town victims at marshawn capitol hill. if that does become a force of the next six years or the next decade, that is how people are able to bring change to washington. legislation sometimes takes a long time to pass, civil rights legislation, health care reform. what remains to be seen is if there is the power and
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solidarity and commitment of people saying we are going to make this a decade's long crusade to get something done. that sometimes is the formula to get things passed through congress. illinois, independent line, good morning. caller: my comment about immigration and the news media is that the news media abuse everything through the political process. it is always about the eternal elections, who is ahead, who is behind, who is going to benefit. i wish the media would spend more time covering the american people. what is going on with real people in america? i recommend you get out of the beltway, get out of manhattan, and see how real americans live. the big problem in america is our trade laws, or open borders, driving down the wage levels in america. average american people are having a very difficult time
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making a living. the idea that you can open up immigration and let millions and millions of people into this country is asinine. corporate media like you guys will not cover that story. you are all about the liberal, let's let everybody in, we are a multicultural, one-world society. that is wrong. get out of the beltway and go see how real americans live and let's stop the enlist political, next election coverage. it is just too bad. cover what is really going on in america. are your primary sources of news and information? caller: wall street journal, the economist, i like to listen to everybody, talk radio. host: they are owned by
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corporations as well. .aller: >> i am a working guy i am is tired of hearing about the election. the election coverage never ends. focus on what is going on with real american people. i am tired of hearing about professional politicians. we don't care about them. host: you have heard this debate before. guest: i am a political reporter craig we were talking about the policy implications of this legislation. it is important for people to know what is being debated on immigration reform, but also the sticking points when it comes to policy. i do live in washington d.c., but i grew up in south texas on the texas-mexican border and i have been covering immigration
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reform for more than a decade. i know a thing or two when it comes to this type of issue, when it comes to talking about border security and undocumented immigrants who want a pathway to citizenship, as well as employers who are looking for some type of way to ensure they are not employing illegal immigrants. host: is there any way to effectively control over 12,000 miles of sea coast? last call, new york city, democrats line with mark murray. good morning. caller: >> good morning. your program is very interesting on sunday morning. to closemised guantanamo, and now there are , prisoners on hunger strikes, including quite
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a few of them being forced fed. can you comment on that, mr. murray? bayt: yes, the guantanamo prison does remain open and there are people reporting and experiencing that this is not a fair system, it is not justified for them to be able to do. president obama made this a big priority of his during the 2008 presidential campaign. congress was unwilling to work with him one way or the other on that, and that is the reason why it still remains open and it is kind of a sore for him as well as capitol hill, washington, and a lot of the legal community. rewinding history, the bush museum let you decide. a number of exhibits, including
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a complete replica of the oval office. of $250 million. the dedication ceremony will take place on thursday. president obama will join all living former presidents at this event. there is a related piece this morning in the washington post. at the from a professor u.s. naval academy in annapolis, maryland. the use of history, ideology as a political weapon, which means the corruption of history as history. bush may or may not have been a great president. he may be considered average or below average, but the nation deserves better than this partisan rush to judgment.
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thing worth noting is that history does change a lot of times. people who are down in history can be judged later and have a renaissance. sometimes when history changes, world events change. perceptions of a president can change. third up% of the country view of george w. bush in a -- 35% you george w. bush in a positive light. right now there seems to be a negative judgment, but it remains to be seen if it changes over time. certainly his political legacy is going to be front and center at this library being unveiled on thursday.
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hopes that jebe bush runs for president. guest: that is what a good brother should always do. all indications are that jeb bush may be thinking about a presidential bid. he decides to make a run is something we will find out later on. we have a lot of time before 2016. there is this early jockeying taking place. we talked about rand paul earlier, marco rubio and his maneuverings. is a fascinating story, but we will not have any kind of definite conclusion for another couple of years. >> the university of texas in austin, you had the lbj library. ,id that impact your studies
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and will we see that at smu? >> i was able to take some graduate courses affiliated with the lbj school. washe time a historian doing additional research on lbj. the lbj library had lectures they were hosting that i was able to partake in as a student. noted historians were going over past american presidents. it was a great experience. i think a lot of smu students will like being so close to all the history that was involved with george w. bush. host: mark murray, thanks very much for stopping by. up next, we turn our attention back to the issue of terrorism, and a new report out that americans have thought about the prospect of terrorism. how often do you think about the prospect of being a victim of a terrorist attack?
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a separate report about the use of torture here in the u.s., a critical report aimed at the bush administration. looking at virginia beach and the surrounding area at 5:00 eastern time on c-span3, a look at the history of the naval air station. here's a portion of that program. >> in the hornet or super hornet that lies on aircraft carriers on the east coast call oceana home. we have about 16,000 folks who work here. -- the navy ball the
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form from the family who still live here in town. at jet basemaster in 1953. we have about 315 hornets and super hornet is here at oceana. you will see them taking off and landing and going through training. pilots and squadrons from this air station that are deployed in the persian gulf area and they are flying combat missions over afghanistan as we speak. oceana has been around since world war ii. you name it, we have done it here. all this weekend on c- , we will takean3
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you to virginia beach, virginia and we will look at the history. you can check out all our programming online at c- span.org. bill braniff is with the national consortium for the study of terrorism and responses for terrorism. thank you very much for being with us. what is the summary of this report? guest: this report looks at u.s. attitudes toward terrorism as a result of a literature review the generated the finding that there were no baselines about u.s. attitudes toward this. a baselineo document for american perceptions toward terrorism in counter-terrorism. some of the findings were somewhat surprising.
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one of the headline findings is that in the week leading up to the survey, 50% of individuals said they had thought about terrorism in the united states in that week. 10% had thought about being the victim of violent crime or hospitalization. a -- anrism remains issue on the minds of many americans. there were some other findings with respect to counter- terrorism. while about 87% of the population felt that the government has been somewhat or very effective in the counter- terrorism realm, 69% feel there's been nothing that can be done to stop a terrorist attack if the individual or organization is dead set to do it. host: this tour was published last week by the new york times.
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it may surprise a lot of people. summarizes where we have been in attacks. in the 1970's, as many as 400 terrorist related attacks. you can see a steady decline over the years, and the number of deaths as a result of that. then the huge increase on september 11, 2001, but then a steady decline since then. until the boston bombings, there has been a sense of, some might say, complacency. guest: the numbers are somewhat surprising. the number of terrorist incidents does decrease and in the last decade, the numbers continue to trend downward. the important caveat is that incidents are not the only measure of threats and the number of fatalities and
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injuries are also significant to take a look at. the boston bombing, if it turns out to be ideologically motivated, will be the fifth largest attack between 1970 and the current date. that is based on the number of casualties, injuries and fatalities. so this is a very significant, and novelists attack. about 1% of terrorist attacks in the u.s. of the last 32 years has generated 10 are more casualties, that is fatalities and injuries together. this is the headline this morning. the city of boston tries to turn the page and move onto a sense of normalcy, but as the investigation continues into
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dzhokhar tsarnaev who remains injured and innovative. -- intubated. guest: the their travel is likely going to be key to understand whether or not this event was for an inspired, or perhaps even concocted in consultation with individuals abroad. key questions will likely revolve around the older brother, and secondary questions, how it did this individual seem to lead such a double life? all the family and friends that have come forward have been shocked. that happens quite frequently in this type of case, but in this
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case he really does seem to have been quite well liked and well integrated and kept this other part of his life entirely separate. host: and again, this is based on what we know so far. it seems like a lot of the questions into the older brother, the 26-europe, who spent six months in russia. there was a conversation over the weekend between the president and russian president vladimir putin. right now there is no strong reason to think that this is directly tied to a foreign terrorist group. there is a catchall group for several different groups that were created first in the mid- 1990's.
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since then there has been a contingent of al qaeda-style jihadi groups and individuals fighting in the chechen insurgency. responsible for some really spectacular attacks into russia primarily. there's currently no reason to suggest there is a hard linc. host: one of the questions is, how you define terrorism? center claire mccaskill from missouri pose that question to homeland security secretary janet napolitano. >> based on the evidence at this point, is there any difference between sandy hook and boston, other than the choice of weapons?
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in terms of intent for death and destruction and injury, no. methodology, guess. we don't know the motivation certainly behind boston. we don't know whether was domestic, international -- >> or if it was identical to the motivation in sandy hook. >> we just don't know the answer. i think it is impossible for me to sit at the table today and say they are identical, except in the effect of impact. >> as i look at the evidence that is available, you have mass destruction and violence and andghter of innocents,
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neither case do we note motive. the irony is, we are so quick to call boston terror, why are we not calling the man with a high- capacity assault weapon and a high-capacity magazine, why are we not calling him a terrorist? >> i don't know the answer to that question. host: bill braniff, do you have a response to that exchange? ofst: the definition terrorism is an often repeated question. it comes up and all kinds of circumstances. in this case, given that we don't know motive, we don't know if this is an act of terrorism in an academic sense. explosive improvised devices suggests to lot of people that this is not an
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.ctor of just wanton violence it looks like terrorism to many people, but that is an emotional reaction, i think, to a spectacular example of violence. bill braniff is a graduate of the military academy at west point and is now the executive director of an organization called the national consortium for the study of terrorism and responses to terrorism. what is the history of this association? where's your funding come from, and what is its mission statement? guest: it is an interdisciplinary research center based at the university of maryland. we are primarily funded through the department of homeland security.
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there are centers of excellence around the country. we look at the human and behavioral sciences as they relate to terrorism in counter- terrorism. the organization has been around for about eight years now. the director could not be with us today. i just want to thank you for having us and thank you for letting us have a voice here. we do a lot of objective work. we are a data driven organization. we tend to generate large datasets. host: we thank you for being with us and we welcome you taking our viewer calls as well. good morning. , myer: as an american
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feelings toward terrorism and violence -- i am aware of what is going on. i am a news junkie, so i keep up with everything, but i don't let it dictate my life and that kind of thing. i am in the landscape business and i am more terrified of thanng run over by a car an act of violence by someone walking up to me in hurting me more than something like what happened in boston. i am going to a big event here in north carolina this coming weekend. thought i'd not going to go to that event because of what happens in these situations. that is my feeling towards it. host: thanks to the call. that goes directly to your study. guest: it is anpoint. 2012, there been
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20069 terror events in the united states. most of those happened in the first decade of that time frame, the 1970's. when you get into the current day and age, it is quite rare political phenomenon. it is important for people to continue to go about their business. those who were aware of it thought it was an effective way to address the issue. if we see something suspicious, we should report it, but we should continue to go about our lives. host: you can get more information at dhs.gov. dan is joining us from ohio,
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republican line. caller: it seems like the war on terrorism is still hot. you look at these people, and i believe what they are really trying to do [indiscernible] all the people that were killed over egypt, the christians were crucified. .ook what happened at fort hood our president called the workplace violence. as far as guns in school, when the american civil liberties union came out in the 1960's the took our morality, are foundation out of our schools. scripture says you reap what you sow.
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back then kids chewing bubble gum and running in the halls where the problems. now it is kids bringing guns to school. guest: terrorism is intended to generate an emotional response. it is meant to be a provocative kind of violence beyond the immediate target of the attack. i think in this case, al qaeda and groups like it who have conducted these abominable kinds of attacks, they are meant to generate a response. they are meant to polarize .ociety in many cases unfortunately, as a tactic they are somewhat effective in doing that.
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that is one of the consequences of terrorism. let me share with you a comment from the editor of the daily telegraph, a british newspaper. he refers to the president who talked about in the state of the union address, the core objective of defeating al qaeda. again, bring the nagging uncertainty of terrorism back on the american main street. guest: i think what boston reminds us is that what you can get a great the frequency of these attacks over time for a counter-terrorism campaigns, we are not going to be -- there will not be a time when there will not be any terrorism.
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terrorism is a fact of life, albeit it happens infrequently. you could argue that the strategic campaign against al qaeda has been successful, yet there will still be a tax. is -- still be attacks. is worth mentioning that we don't know if this attack had anything to do with -- they could have largely acted independently of any organization. host: another look at the new york times. jr. is joining us from texas, democrat line. caller: thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to express a couple of questions i have. in view of the fact that our nation has seen to have lost its
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moral values and ethics and we have celebrities and institutions above and beyond the law, how can we deter al qaeda terrorism when we support the opponents that are overthrowing beat syrian government? those opponents are made up of the al qaeda forces. most recently, the obama administration's stated that them $123iving million, and the opposition stated they wanted more than that. how can we defeat them when we are supplying them? at the same time, we have issues like benghazi and helicopter that had a hard crash landing in south korea this week, and nobody has covered that at all. texas connected to the boston marathon bombing? was that a cover-up so they could do what they wanted to do
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in west, texas? how much fertilizer was taken away before the explosion occurred? does anybody have any control over that? i just don't see how we can defeat al qaeda and terrorism if we continue to put everyone on frites welfare without giving any drug test and saying you have 30, 90 days to get on welfare and get off and get you a job, things like that. we just need to bring back our moral values and ethics and hold our politicians to a standard and make them stand up there and do what they said they would do. thanks for the call. his comments stand, unless you want to respond to anything he said. guest: is not uncommon for national security, national interest to put the government
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in really odd places. in the case of syria, it could be that in a specific context, the interest of the united states aligned with interest of some actors in this case who jihadism.to buy let in some cases, national interests -- have ties to violent jihadism. it is a highly complicated realm. a weapon says there is to incite fear in victims unknown when targets are not chosen in anger or revenge. these are some of the words you heard from more than 1500
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golfview surveyed reject more than 1500 adults use survey. -- more than 1500 adults you survey. guest: sir ray was geared toward looking at issues that related toward violence -- the survey was geared toward looking at issues related to violence. there is a lot of concern with than theues, more so amount of violence that has come organizations post 2001. it is a topic that generates a large response because of the nature of the violence, even though the frequency of the tax is not higher. host: if you are interested in the legal challenges facing
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suspect in the boston bombing, -- the suspect remains hospitalized this morning. at the moment he is not communicating with anyone because of his serious condition. if you are just tuning in, we are joined by bill craddick here at the table to talk about the issue of terrorism -- bill braddick. republican line, good morning. caller: my feeling on this is, i have lived in newtown, connecticut and new york city, and not far from boston. we always fall short. we don't do enough.
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we treat everyone was so much respect, but people have less respect for us. we have to smackdown people are like this so they will not come to our country and treat us like this. i cannot afford to send my kid to the schools they went to. caught, you should be brought right to trial and then executed. it's out of control. we don't do enough in this country. have a lot of facts or figures to talk about prosecution rates. based on work we have done,
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funded through the systems division, prosecution rates remain fairly consistent pre- 9/11 to post 9/11. i can't say definitively much about prosecution rates. they appear to have been consistent. , it'sms of terrorism important to understand that terrorism is not just emanating from overseas. if you look at the attacks in the united states between 2001 and2011, the environmental animal liberation front have been the two most prolific movements in the united states responsible for the 1984 attacks over that decade. they target businesses, as opposed to targeting human life, but they are highly active,
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highly american, not necessarily coming from abroad. behind that, you get groups -- such as al qaeda. if you look at 84 attacks coming out of those groups compared to four from al qaeda, how do you compare? a lot of terrorism and the united states is born and raised here. based on your background in this, are there any parallels to what happened in the oklahoma , to what we potentially could see with the ,9-year-old dzhokhar tsarnaev who is about to be charged probably later this week? guest: it certainly well within
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the cards. if he is convicted, what will be the fifth largest act of terrorism in the united states, then went on to be involved in the murder of another law enforcement official, and then went on to throw improvised explosive devices out of two cars, one of which was a carjacked vehicle. is an extraordinary example of violence. the pentagon evidence -- depending on evidence, which i certainly have no inside knowledge of, this has the potential to go to trial. host: one day after the bombings took place, the other was killed in that shooting in watertown, massachusetts, the
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center public and later mitch mcconnell had this to say on the senate floor tuesday. [video clip]>> these attacks are a grim reminder of the hatred and contempt of the many continue to harbor in their hearts not only for our nation and its freedoms, but for innocent human life. on 9/11 we were forever disabused of the notion that attacks such as the one that brought boston only happened on the field of battle or in distant countries. with the passage of time and the vigilant efforts of our military intelligence and law enforcement professionals, i think it's safe to say that for many, the complacency that prevailed prior to september the 11th has returned. we are newly reminded that serious threats to our way of life remain.
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today we recommit ourselves to the fight against terrorism at home and abroad. host: mitch mcconnell and susan crabtree were reporting this morning that some members of congress want the suspect to be tried as an enemy combatant. that debate will continue today on the sunday morning programs. join is jenning is from virginia -- joining us from virginia. -- john is joining us from virginia. caller: you mentioned that your organization is doing quantitative analysis. , how to numbers and money much money -- i'm going to make the assumption that this latest attack was motivated by the religion of islam. how much money does the fbi and department of homeland security, if they divided the budget in
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this manner, do they spend specifically on targeting islamic motivated groups who are targeting america, that are currently operating or living inside of the united states? , is itollowing question worth having immigration system that allows muslims into the country? there is 5 billion people in the world who are not muslims. we can still be a country of immigrants, but we don't need to allow people in the country -- is the juice worth the squeeze? it's dangerous. bill braniff, your response. know how mucht is spent on targeting specific groups in the united states. the task forces are led by leads
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of suspicious activity that comes in and they track those leads down. they respond to international events and work with immigrant communities, etc.. if there is something going on abroad that might impact things domestically. i do not think that they think about their portfolio in the terms that you outlined. , if you of immigration look at immigration only through the lens of terrorism, you might come to certain conclusions. if you look at it through a broader lens, i think use immigration as a key to national security. it's a key to our economic well- being. i think people look at immigration more holistically
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and not only through the lens of terrorism. you might make an argument that john just made. i wouldn't agree with the argument, but i understand the point of view. i think immigration has a lot of other facets to it that involve national security. host: the other question in terms of how you define terrorism. this is from one of our viewers. let me go back to the study from the national consortium for the study of terrorism & responses to terrorism and the response to terrorism. when you ask the 1500 people across the country what worried them the most, job loss, 18%. a terrorist attack, 7.9%. about half said they are somewhat worried. hospitalization and careers and .obs a higher level of concern to those whooes
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had thought about terrorism in the last week. that's a subset of the larger example. if you compared terrorism just to job loss for the totality of those surveyed, 15% said they thought about terrorism in the week leading up to the survey. i believe only 16% had thought about job loss. we drove down into one of the subsets in that category. are means that people thinking about terrorism as much as they are thinking about job loss even in the current state of the economy. this is from fall of 2012. we will see if that changes post-boston and if those numbers go up. this goes to the earlier segment that you aired, this idea that the united states is complacent with respect to terrorism.
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i think the survey demonstrates it is among the things that iople think about your it also think that the law enforcement community is certainly not complacent when it comes to terrorism. the boston event was a security event. there's a lot of individuals covering that event, from federal, state and local. i don't think that boston happened due to complacency. i don't think we necessarily are complacent. i think we have accepted terrorism as a new facet of our reality, albeit one that does not happen that frequently. host: if you want to look at the start.u you can go to m.d.edd.edu to get more informa. nationaliff, from the consortium for the study of terrorism & responses to terrorism. caller: good morning.
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i think these turbo crimes are quite separate. two crimes are quite separate. the man in connecticut was concerning his disease. he shot his mother first. he ended up with the unspeakable crime of killing children. the other young man is possibly emotional unstable, but it was a terrorist attack. the other man didn't have any terror. he just wanted to get even with the whole world. the fellow in boston, he was overwhelmed by his own ideas of what should be in the world, and he must be held responsible.
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they are both based on hatred, but emotionally unstable people. the two fellows that came to watertown were brought up in this country. i think it's just a dreadful thing. host: is it different, the fact that they were born here versus someone who came here legally and became a u.s. citizen? caller: i don't think so. i think the older brother had ideas about america which were quite awful, and he wanted to get even. i think he thought he would do it by making up a bomb. i think the terrible thing in the school was motivated by anger, and the fact that he killed his mother first, i think he thought that she knew what was wrong with them -- him.
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why is it considered a sport for anyone to go out and kill a rabbit or bird or duck? that's not a sport. it isk every folding -- mixed up in this country. thanks so much. guest: let me take up on her point. that we have no link whatsoever to what is happening in boston. thisnot suggesting was a terrorist incident initiated by groups in chechnya.
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they use violence for an instrumental purpose and they use propaganda for an answer mental purpose. purpose.trumental they may want to distance themselves from these two boys because they know it's not in their best interest. that would work against them if united states started to look at that as a region of interest akin to yemen, somalia, afghanistan, pakistan. whether or not that's factually accurate, i don't know. it's not unusual for organizations to think instrumentally about this violence and use it when it's useful for them and distance themselves from it when it's not. that being said, there are groups in the caucuses that have an anti-american band, and anti-semitic event as well as bent, anti- bent --
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semeitic bent as well as anti- russian bent. their concern is autonomy. there are actors within that environment. for them, had this been directly tied to have these two individuals been directly tied to those groups, i would be surprised if they didn't want to claim it. there are anti-american sentiments. host: what surprised you the most as you go through this data? guest: one of the positive surprises was the willingness of the american people and working with law enforcement and department of homeland security in a way similar to the administration strategy for preventing violent extremism. a community-oriented approach
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that will increase community between -- communication between the community and government, and prevent radicalization from happening in the first place, and if it does occur, allowing the government and community to deal with it in a positive way before a terrorist plot is hatched. 57% of respondents indicated a willingness to work with law enforcement and dhs to establish those relationships ahead of time. positive story. i see a lot of value in a community-oriented approach towards these counter radicalization. host: national consortium for the study of terrorism & responses to terrorism, bill braniff, thank you for being with us. thank you to dhs, who funded the survey. host: we thank you.
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we're going to turn our attention to another report that did not get a lot of attention because of the events in boston. theant to shine a light on constitution project, a task force on the issue of the detainee treatment. quote, it was indisputable that the united states did engage in the practice of torture. that is the conclusion of the constitution project task force on detainee treatment. the bombings and boston and the week ahead with immigration and the debate this past week on guns. the topics making the sunday programs, all of which can be heard on c-span radio. >> on today's shows, those will be the topics discussed. c-span radio re-airs five of those programs beginning at noon eastern. today's guests including house intelligence committee chairman mike rogers, senator dick durbin,, richard clarke.
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1:00 p.m., abc's this week with mayor thomas menino. senator dan coats and the ranking member of the house, congressman bennie thompson. chris wallace talks with the chairman of the senate intelligence committee. , andor dianne feinstein michael hayden. cnn's state of the union follows at 3:00 p.m.. candy crowley welcomes mike , chuck rudy giuliani schumer, and lindsey graham trade at 4:00 p.m. -- graham. at 4:00 p.m., face the nation. , formertom coburn secretary of homeland security tom ridge. the sunday network tv talk shows are brought to you as a public service by the networks and c- span. the re-airs begin at noon
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eastern with meet the press, 1:00, abc's this week. 3:00 p.m., cnn's state of the union. 4:00 p.m. eastern, face the nation from cbs. listen to them all on c-span ,adio on 90.1 in washington d.c. area. nationwide on xm satellite radio, channel 119. download our free app for your smart phone or go online to cspanradio.org. the most35 is expensive weapons system in the history of the united states. it is an advanced warplane, fighter jet to be used by the air force, navy, and ring core. it's the replacement for the f- 16, for the air force, other planes, marines and navy. it was a plane that was both to
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be in the skies, fighting now. it's still in development. it's incredibly troubled program. that has gonem tens of billions of dollars over budget. i borrowed into this program -- burrowed into this program as a way of writing about the overall challenges of trimming the defense budget. this program is singular because of its cost overruns on the way it has been structured. it's most offensive attractive attribute may well be the way it has designed to evade budget cutters in washington. >> tonight at 8:00 on c-span's q&a. kent eiler is with a
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constitution project task force on detainee treatment. thank you for being with us. let me ask you about this report. as you look at the headline, it says it is indisputable that the united states engaged in the practice of torture, and detailed instructions -- ascussions directly involved president and his top advisers. some strong words. the constitution project's task force looked at tens of thousands of pages of documents, conducted hundreds of interviews with subjects. this was the conclusion that the
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task force reached. as they said in their words, it was indisputable that this is what all of the evidence that they have an opportunity to review put it -- pointed towards trad. host: summarize your other conclusions. guest: the constitution project initiated the task force on detainee treatment back in 2011, two years ago. in order to --d after president obama had come and declined to look at some of these issues at the task force thought were important to examine, and as congress declined to do the exact same thing, they engaged in a study to determine with all the different reports that were
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out there, what mistakes were made, if any, and what should we learn from what has occurred over the last 12 years as we move forward to make sure that none of those mistakes are repeated. host: if you look at what happened in boston, there is another debate as to what to do with the 19-year-old suspect to the bombing, and how we should be tried, the fact that he was not born in the u.s. but is a u.s. citizen. are there parallels to what happened with timothy mcveigh? should he be sent to guantánamo ? guest: in chapter seven of the report -- i would encourage viewers to look at what our report has to say about some of whyhistory that explains it is where having the current debate were having. , in late summer of
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2009, the admin is -- obama administration had created a high-value interrogation group that was to include experts in ,he field of interrogation from the public sector, ngo's. by several months later, in december 2009, this group is still not active. , therestmas day of 2009 was the underwear bomber. he was apprehended in detroit. ,hortly after his apprehension it was reported that a member of the group spoke with them. you is reportedly mirandized -- he was reportedly mirandized, read his rights, and elected to
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choose council and not provide any further intelligence information. this is something that was criticized at the time and is part of the current debate now, four years on. howreport then talks about president obama's high-value group has been involved in the interrogation of the attempted times square bomber. both the underwear bomber and times square bomber both subsequently were tried and received life sentences in prison in federal court. that is some of the background about why it is where having this debate. the debate is really two parts. the first part is the individual and enemy combatants, which is a
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characterization made under the laws of war where you're not even going to moran dies a person -- moran dies -- mirandize a person. as a determine -- that's a determination that law enforcement along with national security officials are in the process of making. host: this is what the report looks like. put this together. a graduate of northwestern university, aren't his law degree from brooklyn law school and served in the u.s. air law degreerned his from brooklyn law school and served in the u.s. air force. who will be asking the questions of dzhokhar tsarnaev? most likely it will be members of this high-value interrogation group that works
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for the obama administration. about reported in 2010 how it is believed that the organization is now led by the fbi, but it also has participation from the defense department, the central intelligence agency. there are several agencies involved with this group of experts about balancing these interests out, making sure that if there is important information for national security, that that information can be brought through the course of a lawful investigation, and also making -- theat the individuals suspect is able to be brought to justice. host: let me put another voice
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on the table, dick cheney. one year ago, the former vice president talked about techniques used to get information, individuals that he said were high-value targets to protect the homeland. here's a a portion of what he had to say. some of the>> strongest controversy surrounding some of our post- 9/11 policies, we had to do a couple of things that i thought were very important. the president made the basic decision and signed off on it. a surveillanceup program that led us to select intelligence on people calling from outside the united states. the other was our enhanced interrogation techniques that we
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applied to a handful of all kind of terrorists when we captured terrorists when we captured them. we were very careful to make certain they were legal estate within their limits. -- and stayed within their limits. we did develop techniques that were absolutely valuable and .ollecting information we captured the mastermind of 9/11. he was not very cooperative at the outset. after he had been involved in advanced interrogation techniques, he decided he wanted to cooperate. host: that was the vice president one year ago. the essence of the debate, how do you protect the homeland, get information that could save american lives, and get where do you draw the line on what is torture -- yet where do you draw the line on what is torture?
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the vicesponding to president statements a year ago, i would encourage viewers to take a look at our report. ae vice president alluded to reliance upon attorneys and also experts within the medical profession. we talk about the mistakes that were made by highly regarded ,embers of those professions and what our report looked at were claims that many senior leaders have made about the efficacy of these programs, and for instance, the vice president's claim regarding the compliance and effectiveness of intelligence that was gathered. there is a quite considerable was available prior
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to our report in many different locations. the service of doing the report was to consolidate and put everything in one location. the task force concluded that what we know about him -- only we still don't have access to what remains classified. those were limitations in our report. at least the claims that were , leaders have said, you have to trust us. host: you can watch the news conference available on our
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website, and get more information on the constitution project, constitution project.org. deborah is joining us from pennsylvania. caller: good morning. enhancedy do this investigation with the suspect, if they find out there is no international or local domestic terrorist ties, is there a mechanism for the administration to return to the foral criminal procedures criminal prosecution? guest: very good question. at this early stage, less than 48 hours since the suspect was apprehended, there is a lot that we don't know as to how the government is planning to proceed in this case.
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as i said just a moment ago, obviously it would be important once thenterrogation suspect is able to participate in an interrogation, once they are able to learn information, then interrogators will be able to better assess how in consultation with officials, how the case should go from there. if there is one thing i hope will come from our report, and we talked about this at length -- when it comes to interrogation, i think all of us would be -- i think the country would be better served if hollywood's popular culture, whether it is shows like "24 to go which give people an idea of what they think makes them -- "
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24," which give people an idea of what they think makes him a good interrogator -- there are really professional interrogators. --them a good interrogator there are really professional interrogators. , i really gained an appreciation that there are real experts out there, and this is a real, exact science, and it is important that we give those people the opportunity to do their jobs as they need to. if you are says -- a viewer says the following on twitter. stephen is joining us from new
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york on the line for independents. caller: good morning. i don't understand why trying a 19-year-old under the laws of war is even an option. host: do you want to respond to that? guest: in terms of what the report talks about, i do think that you touched on something that is a corollary to another finding that the task force made, which was the practice of indefinite detention is inconsistent with our constitution and values. isefinite detention appropriate under the laws of war.
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the law of war is for military legal experts and scholars who for centuries have understood that it is an unnatural time of affairs, war, and the task for ce recognizes that in definite detention -- when you're talking about definite detention in perpetuity, which is the de facto situation or seems to be the de facto situation for many that are currently being detained, that that overtime is ultimately corrosive to any democracy. host: john has this point. based on this report, who bears responsibility for using these techniques in interrogations? guest: finding number one or number two in our report
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indicates that senior leaders bear responsibility. part of it is to think about this in terms of -- you have to remember what it is a we had access to in conducting this report are a. i want to make a recommendation as to any person's single culpability or liability. i think the task force knew that was beyond the scope of what we were able to do. the wording was carefully selected. senior leaders bear responsibility. that is across the diplomatic , and electedry officials. host: another comment on the report on twitter.
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is anyone held accountable for this in your study? guest: i think so. , there hasis report not been -- that is why the task force felt like a report like this was necessary in order to so that theop country could begin to come to terms with what had been done in its name, and learn from those mistakes. were talking about accountability in terms of criminal prosecutions. that is something that is really appropriately within the problems of the department of justice. they are the ones who have subpoena power, access to classified materials. one of the things we hope this
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report will encourage is that there is a report that has been completed, over 6000 pages, by the senate intelligence committee. we do that report as being complement three to our report -- view that report as being complementary to our report. our understanding is that report looked exclusively at classified information. we were pleased well we was dual tracking when it became known in the media that the senate intelligence committee recently that there was no useful intelligence gained from the bush administration enhanced interrogation program but could not have been gained through other methods. that thethe conclusion evidence that was available to us was pointing to as well. we believe the reports are couple mentoring -- complement threeary -- complementary.
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to beport needs declassified for the american people. host: this report, looking at the treatment of detainees, part of because duchenne project. our guest serves as counsel for that organization -- the constitution project. our guest serves as counsel for that organization. caller: i'm concerned that he not be put through a standard procedures such as we saw in saudi arabia by our soldiers during their derivation -- interrogation. what guidelines will be followed during this interrogation? guest: sure. with the boston suspect, one of the things that i certainly have learned from professional everyogators is that
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person to some extent is different, and they respond differently to different types of motivations. there may be friends, there may who cany that a person speak to this person to motivate that individual to cooperate. it's an art and a science. in terms of the exact questions, i'm sure that is going to depend upon the responses that they get initially. a lot of that is going to determine how they decide to move forward. host: this story still dominating the morning papers. kent eiler is joining us at the table. we have a caller from tennessee. caller: hi. . have a question
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i originally wanted to ask about but what about the park up in new york where these five young kids were questioned and convicted and sent to prison for 12 years? .hey were interrogated how do you know things like that don't happen in the military? guest: if i understand your question correctly, there is a domestic case that happened several years ago up in new york. there are different rules that -- we get into merchandising individual -- mirandizing an in dividual. wherever you have aan
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investigation taking place, you need to have somebody who is competent, somebody who in addition to understanding how to effectively gain intelligence is also familiar with what is and what is not permissible under the law during an interrogation so that we make sure that law enforcement officials who have such an important job are complying with the law when they act in our name. zero dark 30u see " "? guest: yes. host: this is a comment from our guest. how do you respond to that? guest: as we were putting our report together and as that film came out, i think you can write about these techniques. many of them sound in the abstract to be benign.
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we were talking about sleep deprivation, confinement in a cramped space. one of the things that the film did is put a visual image, which -- a picture can say a thousand words. i think the film is at least , theul in one respect criticisms of the film as we talk about in our report include the fact that in the plot of the movie there is effective intelligence gained through that method, which there is no evidence to suggest that that was the case. pictures can say a thousand words. it's going to be hollywood buta savior -- behavior, based on what is in our report, it does sound like that facet
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of it is something that the filmmakers attempted to try to effectively research. i understand that this individual that they have in custody is a u.s. citizen and that these acts happen on u.s. soil. but i hear a lot of talk about, he could be designated as an .nemy who makes that threshold determination? what ability does this person in custody have to rebut that? can he be unilaterally determined to be an enemy combatant? host: thank you.
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as i was mentioning earlier, talking about this designation between the rules that apply under the laws in these are in peacetime, when it does not apply. that is part of the debate. when you're talking about who makes the decision, that is something that we entrust it is handled by our military. the president is the commander in chief. i would guess based on the reporting in our report that this is something where given the nature of what occurred, there are national security and law enforcement officials actively involved in discussing how this investigation will go forward.
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are very because we early on in this investigation. as more information comes out, those investigators will be able to make a recommendation about the most effective way forward. host: our guest is kent eiler of the constitution project. the report makes this conclusion, the indisputable fact that the u.s. did engage in the practice of torture, the kind of detailed discussions that occurred after 9/11 directly involving a president and his top advisers. on the situation in boston will his week, citizenship be revoked? guest: could it be revoked, does
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that matter? i'm not aware of a circumstance under which that is likely or even possible that that would occur. host: this is from today's parade magazine. in this interview, he talked about the tough calls he made to keep america safe. guest: what is important to what theis that -- task force says is that senior leaders that made decisions are responsible for the decisions that they make. -- and theimportant
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task force at the outset talks september 11, two thousand one, it's important to remember that president bush and his administration were in office. we don't know how and if things would be different under a democratic administration, for example. you can't disassociate and go back and second-guess. host: our next caller is from pompano beach, florida. world war ii, we hung a bunch of the japanese. i can't imagine how we can
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justify that. , caller.nk you guest: we talk about in our report the instances in which abused bys have been countries that did not observe the geneva conventions. conventions, we're talking about -- there have been multiple instances. part of this report is an effort to remind the american people and our leaders that the ability moral country to provide structure is important.
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it's important that we address our mistakes. historically when we have acknowledged them, it is better moving forward. daily newsew york has an extensive series of stories related to the terrorists and their involvement, the two brothers. this is from a former nypd expert, mitchell silver. he says, quote, let me be very clear. there is no reason to go around systematically suspecting muslims or immigrants as being radicals. the vast majority are peaceful and patriotic americans. but we must ask what motivates well-integrated young man to fall down the rabbit hole of radicalism and become violent terrorists. how do we get that information, and if these folks are not talking to us, and if there is a threat of americans being
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maimed or killed, is torture a viable alternative? guest: we are a nation of laws and not of men. it is illegal under both international and domestic law. what are report also is that there is no known evidence in the public that demonstrates that when we that therom our values means justify the ends. it's a difficult truth to confront. , think that that's important and that's one of the purposes of this report. kerry is joining us from connecticut. caller: thank you for c-span. my comments may be different than most of the callers today.
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i believe that war was declared on us the minute that 2011 occurred. you cannot deal with savage people sometimes without using torture because when you think of what they do to us, when they capture us -- i know there's legal issues, but we are not people -- dealing with people of a rational mind. when we have islamist terrorists, we can have very strong evidence that they are involved in destroying our , i say let'swhim do that torture. they sure don't show any sympathy for us. two wrongs sometimes do make a right grea. host: it may go back to the statement of this. you quote patrick leahy. the projectt that
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taking a look at certain advances in post-9/11 that were unprecedented in american history. both those assertions are correct. one thing i would encourage kerry or anyone that may be dubious as to the findings and recommendations that this group of individuals, patriotic task force members, is that the report is available online, www.detaineetaskforce.org. it's not a light or short read, -- it's an incredible would encourage all americans to review the report for yourself and afterwards, come to your own conclusions. i believe that someone who comes to it with an open mind, like the task force said -- we had people from across the political
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spectrum, a broad range of views, had looked at this and ultimately reach these confusions. host: the report is available at constitutionproject.org. a comment from a viewer. guest: excellent question. detaineesa number of that have been cleared and have not been released. some of them have been there for well over a decade. .he caller is right one of the task force's recommendations, where the task force split on was whether or not to close the detention facility at guantanamo bay. general opinion was, yes. the facility has been used as a recruiting tool throughout the middle east for the last 12
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years as a symbol of the u.s.'s failure to live up to the rule of law. that theity felt facility needed to be closed. stilll task force members -- it's more important to focus on what they did agree on, the practice of indefinite , buttion is incompatible they felt that the facility -- it was the least worst option to keep the facility open. host: a caller from gaithersburg, maryland. my main issue, the argument in regards to the individual's constitutional
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right, the one who is being held. a reminder of the movie scene with denzel washington. they met bruce willis in a corner and they were discussing, are we going to make the terrorist whein? now, just last week there was an argument about the second amendment. there were those, the marco noio's and ted cruz's, arguing. the circumstances may not be in but we that we like,
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can't pick and choose which constitutional rights apply to the american people. what: i would say that this report says, it's important back to warnings issued by the founding fathers, it is important that the american people always remain diligent in terms of being aware of our protection of our civil liberties. that was why the task force felt that the issuance of this report was important and necessary. host: the report is 577 pages and is available on the constitution website. you can also link to it through c-span's "washington journal" at detianeetask -- edetainee taskforce.org. kent eiler, thank you for being with us. a busy week as immigration
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takes front and center this week. a couple of key votes in the senate, including management and budget. we will talk about immigration with the council on foreign relations, edward alden. the book, "the closing of the american border ." we will talk with jenny gold of about thecare -- healthcare exchanges. anthony costello will be joining us for bloomberg government to talk about oil and gas tax breaks. ,hat is all tomorrow morning 7:00 eastern. 4:00 for those of you on the west post. -- coast. have a great week ahead. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013]
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>> today, our "newsmakers" program with luis gutierrez. then the gang of eight top about immigration reform. then the senate judiciary committee talk about the immigration proposal. >> luis gutierrez and a member of the game of a working on immigration in the house. to reporters to help us with questions. >> this is probably an easy one. you

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